Could otome games help to better understand women?
|#51 by roadi|
2018-10-08 at 13:01
That was a fun read. You seem to have a way with words.
Yeah, most women don't like visual/hardcore porn as much as guys do, but that means they like to get off through other, less explicit/sexual means, and that is romance.I for one hate nukiges with a passion and prefer those with a solid story - I'd be surprised to find someone who actually does like nukiges.
Those would seem to target only the (hopefully small) subset of brainless monkeys among men who have nothing better to do than to wank their sacks empty at the slightest possibility. ;D
|#52 by sakurakoi|
2018-10-08 at 13:12
|I can't help but wonder if #47 was worse than #51~|
|#53 by roadi|
2018-10-08 at 13:15
Puzzling - I don't know whether you are kidding or not... :o
Should I aim to be Politically Correct?
edit: I just noticed, but you are clearly Passive-Aggressive against me. How dare you! ;DLast modified on 2018-10-08 at 13:36
|#54 by kominarachromer|
2018-10-08 at 14:50
|#51 Note: This post is about nukige, not titles like Monmusu Quest and the earlier Sonohana games; where, yes, the porn is a big aspect, but it shouldn't be too hard to see why those are so appealing to so many people.|
Sex is a fundamental human need, and nukige simply tend to have the best H-scene writing. I tend to skip past H-scenes in charage and scenarioge anyways, but what I've seen has generally been pretty bad, both in terms of writing and occasionally in terms of art. Hell, most of the highest rated games on VNDB are infamous for having terrible, shoe-in H-scenes. (Anything Type-MOON, anything KEY, Baldr Sky Dive, etc.)
Basically, nukige's audience is the same as that of "regular" porn; you could say that they are a bunch of brainless monkey wankers, but they're fulfilling a need that isn't really met by most other VNs. That's not even going into the fetishistic aspect, which is probably also a large appeal of the genre.
|#55 by bobjr2000|
2018-10-08 at 22:56
|my 2 cents being part of brainless monkey nukige group. |
I can whole heartily agree would be nice if they had better writing and characters. But honestly I only really read vn for porn. The stories that get more into seriousness and drama tend to be lacking in sex and go into aspect of stuff not really looking for in porn. I don't care for rape, child abuse, gore, psychological problems, domestic violence, abuse, homicide, suicide, drug addiction, dramatic relationships with adultery, complex stories of scifi time travel/fantasy/alternate dimensions ect.
I am mostly just trying to jack off however vn has a nicer preference of build up and some setting compared 99% of western porn. Seeing a woman with fake blond hair, fake breast and faking an orgasm all in a matter of 10 seconds isn't a turn on for everyone.
nothing personal against vn as regular reading but not my cup of tea overall.
|#56 by roadi|
2018-10-09 at 01:53
|A provocative comment met with civil answers is refreshing.|
I was mainly referring to the "hardcore end" of the nukige spectrum - the one, where woman = onaho, ahegao is a must, rape is the default, and whatnot.
Indeed, if you see nukiges as pure porn, then I can see the point.
Though, I would classify that as more of "using" than "liking". :P
|#57 by terrich|
2018-10-09 at 04:02
|I'm with bobjr2000 on nukige.|
Also, I wouldn't bust a nut to something unless I liked it.
|#58 by encrypted12345|
2018-10-09 at 05:41
|@56 I feel like claiming nukige only objectify women is unfair. Even putting aside non-heterosexual nukige like yaoi, there's still the matter of nukige protagonists not exactly being well developed and only following the instincts of their dick.|
|#59 by noirx|
2018-10-09 at 18:08
|As the name implies, nukiges are for people to purely fap on it. Bringing the genre for contemplation won't do any justice.|
|#60 by ramaladni|
2018-10-09 at 18:40
|#55 Are you the type to download a save data file and immediately check out the H-scenes? I think there's a fine line between nukige and eroge and I personally like some plot with my porn. Context can turn a run-of-the-mill scene into something spectacular.|
|#61 by roadi|
2018-10-09 at 20:40
Exactly; the "and whatnot" includes "man = disgusting pig", just forgot to mention that (and probably many more).
I have nothing against the softer end of nukige, those are more like normal VNs with practically no story.
But the hardcore end (at least to me) does not evoke a fine image of the consumer - of course, I may be wrong.
|#62 by sakurakoi|
2018-10-09 at 21:06
|does "whatnot" also include the females being ultimately pleased much more often than not? Besides maybe, and it sure is maybe because even there it could be the case, in Guro? Guro Dere is not an exception~|
Sure, a female dying in a bad end is not rare, even proper ends might find them sold but it seems that most "disgusting pigs" quite care in a way about their "onahole" that should only be an object (why would you want to please an object, how is it pleasing you?). Ironically Ahegao is also rather a sign of excessive ecstasy than agony, especially if you take aside the first scene of a heroine and bad ends (where they still often still smile, lewdly ofc).
Context can turn a run-of-the-mill scene into something spectacular.Well, that's understandable, after all, otherwise artists would just sell CG... which they still do with text and with sure less sales. Nukige surely try to establish an appealing setting and characters but it is merely a matter of fact that there must not be too much time between H scenes hence why many bigger names also make bigger games/VNs instead of going for many but short-20-Base-HCG ones, more H scenes means more time in between to build up characters, making them and the studio more memorable and consumers buy again. Tsurumiku, Tsurumiku never changes~ (no, not tsurupeta... no wait, yes, tsurupeta also never changes)
I rather not mention how quite some "works" for females looks like... my samples might be biased~
|#63 by terrich|
2018-10-10 at 00:56
But the hardcore end (at least to me) does not evoke a fine image of the consumer - of course, I may be wrong.You are wrong.
|#64 by bobjr2000|
2018-10-10 at 01:10
|#60 I aint no cheater until I least failed to get a route 5 times, lucky for me most nukige are pretty easy to get ending want. |
Like I said I like to have some setting and build up, simply jumping straight in is not much different than just regular porn which is why I go to vn an not just porn. I still watch regular porn as well but when I have extra time I don't mind enjoying my personal time instead of rushing it and acting like treating just an urge. I have skipped and stopped plenty of routes because I couldn't stand a characters personality which can be just as much a turn off.
|#65 by nihilloligasan|
2018-10-28 at 04:33
|the problem is that when people (especially men) look at the trends these otome game characters have, they tend to misunderstand what makes the characters attractive in the first place.|
the bad boy trope is probably the most common example of this.
also, otome games (as well as dating sims in general) tend to be marketed towards a specific type of person, so they can't be used to understand everyone. remember, games and reality are two different things, even if the former is inspired by the latter.
if you really want to understand people, research a variety of the fields in psychology and sociology. if you want to understand a specific person, do the research, but also try talking to them, being their friend, etc. look past their outward behavior and try to get to the core of who they are.
|#66 by demmo|
2018-11-05 at 15:33
|Maybe not otome games but Rance games could. All you have to do is behave like Rance and women will fall for you. It's a fact.|
|#67 by seniorblitz|
2018-11-05 at 15:43
|I know you're joking but that is a scary thought. O.o|
|#68 by sakurakoi|
2018-11-05 at 15:46
Maybe not otome games but Rance games could. All you have to do is behave like Rance and women will fall for you. It's a fact.QFT! (depending on TPO and being OP, otherwise NG~)
|#69 by komocakeps|
2018-11-05 at 17:03
|umm, just no. "fictional work" and "understanding real women" should never be in the same sentence.|
2d women =/= 3d women.
it's just as simple as that. I could expound this little statement into a huge wall of text if I want to, but as long as someone can't even wrap their heads in this simple statement, nothing will.
Do I hate real women? is that a woman-hating statement? absolutely not. they are just there. they exist and nothing more. I may or may not want to interact with a 3d girl, but its a nice reminder that its just a matter of "want". Nice footer btw:
"An email from a 3-D girl.... I'd never received one before...."
|#70 by encrypted12345|
2018-11-05 at 19:09
|@67 To be fair, if one's luck stat was as high as Rance's, they would get a harem by default too.|
|#71 by behappyeveryday|
2018-11-06 at 06:01
|@66 Actually this is close to truth, based on most scientific women studies about their dating life. Things what attract women in men for short term relationships (i.e. just sex) => being arrogant, being narcissistic, being muscular, being respected by other people (i.e. having social status), being self-confident.. Rance is all of it, lol. Other than raping women Rance is very close to what, based on different studies, women want as sexual partner (not husband obviously).|
Some proofs link
Funny fact - being faithful is negative trait if you want to get laid.Last modified on 2018-11-06 at 06:12
|#72 by shonenkun|
2018-11-12 at 19:29
|Could ecchi help to understand males? |
No, it can't. All you can understand from these kinds of games and anime is what fetishes one might have, that's kind of it. But that's the catch - people that aren't perverts don't act on the majority of those fantasies, they feel good in a visual novel because (!) they are fantasies that will most likely never be brought to life. There is a certain mind-set that you must posses in order to do things that one might be interested in an ecchi game or otome game, there's a sense of responsibility and "how will I be able to sleep next to him/her?" question. In games and anime we don't have this responsibility and our lives, feelings to the loved ones won't be different if we act out some weird fantasy in a game.
So, no. Ecchi, otome and anything similar is not a way to understand others. If you want to understand women, all you need to do is to talk to them.
Also I'd actually go as far as saying that a great percentage of people end up with
the partners that differ from their fantasies, but I'd rather not discuss that. Things like these are individual.Last modified on 2018-11-12 at 19:35
|#73 by usagi|
2018-11-12 at 19:39
Could ecchi help to understand males?Of course it can. They will undrstand that if you spread legs and show panties - they will like it, if you press your boobs against male's arm - they will like it, if you play the role of innocent little girl or perverted loose woman - they will like it, if you make dinner in naked apron - they will like it, if you make obento and present it to him - they will like it, and so on.
|#74 by shonenkun|
2018-11-12 at 20:09
|Usagi, what you're talking about is more of a "what acts as a turn on for a guy" but it's not really how it works. I mean, even if I say that I like some hentai or played some ecchi game, you can't possibly know which parts of it I liked. Some of my favorite erotics have some scenes that I find disgusting, while others are the best I've seen. |
Maybe I played it just because I liked the character design or because I wanted a break from my usual type of entertainment, maybe the whole "making dinner in naked apron" thing will make me confused or weirded out rather than turned on, you know? And that's me we're talking, guys are usually much more comfortable with that. I for once would not feel comfortable doing something like that even if I knew that my partner reads novels where this kind of things happens.
Also your examples are kind of easy. I mean, you don't need to play an ecchi novel to know that most guys like boobs and anything that has to do with them. And again, everyone is different.
I get what you're saying and I agree with you, but it's not like girls did not know that guys like boobs before visual novels existed or like nobody did it.
It's better to ask them directly to know what they like, is what I'm saying.
Also the question was kind of vague. "Could it help to understand women?" is more like the general side of things other than just the sexual preference.
Anyways, I see what you mean and I agree with you for the most part.Last modified on 2018-11-12 at 20:57
|#75 by gabrielle|
2018-11-13 at 04:46
|In my opinion After Story, from Clannad reflects real life love and problems.|
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