Could otome games help to better understand women?
|#1 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-30 at 18:35
|Main question in title. I'm interested to know if playing otome game could expand your knowledge about women psychology? After all those games designed to be liked by women and best rated of them supposed to do this work well. It is preferred to see answers from some girls, even better from those who is cute and mildly popular IRL, though maybe it is asking too much, lol.|
|#2 by lordnight|
2018-09-30 at 18:48
I'm not sure about you but from the otome games that I played. The girls there are either have no personality or just there for the sake of self insertion. If Women are like that irl I fear for the future of humanity.
...Then again, you should not, always, mix reality from fiction.
|#3 by kiru|
2018-09-30 at 18:52
|At most you can understand better what kinda men girls like. But it's pretty pointless, as it's just as silly as with the girls in bishoujo games.Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 18:52|
|#4 by maggierobot|
2018-09-30 at 19:49
|They'll give you an idea what's popular among weeb girls, but I don't think that's enough of a good reason to try a game...Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 19:53|
|#5 by kominarachromer|
2018-09-30 at 19:50
|We call those fujoshi.|
|#6 by roadi|
2018-09-30 at 19:59
|"Fujoshi" -> BL freak.|
Otome games are not all BL.
|#7 by kominarachromer|
2018-09-30 at 20:00
|#6 The two groups have so much overlap, especially in Japanese markets, that they're practically the same.|
|#8 by roadi|
2018-09-30 at 20:07
|Fair enough. :D|
|#9 by eacil|
2018-09-30 at 20:19
|Wow, what a coincidence, I just started my first otoge a couple of days ago. I was like you but can't say I am learning anything if not what it's like to be a useless person in the sideline of a war, flirting between two battles. The symmetry seems perfect considering how we spend our time complaining about donkan/hetare.|
Otoge are closer to our harem games than anything else and, last time I checked, psychology is the least of their worries. You will know their taste and fantasies but that's quite a superficial way of understanding someone.
I guess it all depends on the writer. Maybe there are otoge which are not a pile of wide backs-big hands stereotypes but for that, you will have to ask real women.
It's a good exercise if you want to see the impact of fanservice on a story, though. It helps putting things into perspective.
Otome games are not all BL.How otoge could even be BL games?
Fair enough. :DYou mean "fail enough". It's not because there is overlap that's what they are called.
|#10 by rusanon|
2018-09-30 at 20:22
|Most of fiction is completely pointless in terms of understanding reality. Especially if you go after something as ridiculously broad as "women psychology".|
|#11 by kominarachromer|
2018-09-30 at 20:29
|#9 The protagonist in Collar x Malice isn't too overtly pathetic, from what I played.|
But yeah, otoge generally have pretty shallow female characters, and the MC in particular is generally meant to be a self-insert. And if you really want an idea of what women think the ideal guy is, you could always just play a yaoi game instead, especially since those seem to have better writing from what I've seen.Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 20:29
|#12 by ramaladni|
2018-09-30 at 23:29
|It's impossible, even women can't understand other women.|
|#13 by erohatasensei|
2018-09-30 at 23:32
|Otome-games can give you nice ideas how to conduct a date, but if you copy the "techniques" that work on these shallow one dimensional female main characters, then you might be hopelessly lost.|
|#14 by warfoki|
2018-09-30 at 23:39
|Oh boy... this thread. The cringe is strong with this one. :P|
So, I've never read an Otome title, but let's reverse the question: how much can you learn about male psychology from your average romcom moege? Well, fuck all honestly. Majority of the protagonists are unremarkable goody-two-shoes, naive and innocent in terms of anything romantic / sexual to the point of it being cringy. Often they are utterly dense as when it comes to noticing the interest of the other sex. And despite all of this, pretty much all the cute girls in the vicinity have the hots for them and often go out to start a relationship with them. And when it comes to sex, these guys are well endowed, and got the stamina to fuck their new girlfriend to an orgasm and go for multiple times despite never doing it before.
Yeah, that's not how ANY of that works in real life. So I expect Otome games to be similarly "realistic", just with switched genders.Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 23:41
|#15 by erohatasensei|
2018-10-01 at 00:12
|I disagree when it comes to the girls. A lot of girls especially ones into otaku culture and the sort, which is likely an interest of you normie-hating folk, are really reserved and silent similar to otome protagonists, because they are pretty much modeled after the japanese female cliche as you first imagine it. Silent, obedient, cute. So you won't pick up a girl that has no interest in such things, but having otome/fujoshi knowledge can surely net you some extra points with fujoshi-type girls.|
But it will not help you understanding the female mind and heart to answer the question.
|#16 by usagi|
2018-10-01 at 00:16
|@14 you didn't get at all what topic starter meant, did you? |
Returnng to your example - rom-com moege IS helpful in understranding male psychology. Not because of protagonist - but because you can understand what types of girls and situations most males likes. And it is surprisingly close to reality tbh. I mean who wouldn't be glad to have schoolgirl gf - head over heels in love, ready for sex any time and making you obento everyday? )
|#17 by erohatasensei|
2018-10-01 at 00:21
|But otome protagonists are often exaggeratedly bad. Like when you have a typical romcom, then the main character might be able to somehow joke or push away the sticky situation and make it funny. Otome girls on the contrary just stay silent and you can immediately feel that they are totally overloaded with any romantic situation like they never experienced anything like it before. Thats probably because innocence is a great virtue in these kind of games.|
I'm happy that Himetai or similar games will bring a change to that clichee and throw something new into the pool.
|#18 by sanahtlig|
2018-10-01 at 06:51
|To turn the question around: Can male-oriented eroge help you understand men and what they want in a relationship? Probably not, because many people play these games to realize a fantasy of unconditional love and a world that revolves around oneself.Last modified on 2018-10-01 at 07:05|
|#19 by pendelhaven|
2018-10-01 at 07:45
|Funny that this thread came up when just literally a while ago a woman in her 25-30s asked me what do I want in a woman. To sum it up, I lied. If I said I only wanted 13-15 year old girls I'm sure she'll be triggered to kingdom come. So I just came up with vague politically correct answers that I can't even remember now.|
I can already picture that this lying and being politically correct also applies to women. they will never say what they want to us men because we'll be triggered as well.
in conclusion, men want sex with young and hot girls, they are disgusted with old hags and will avoid them like the plague. and women want men who has high money that can provide for them, and that they are disgusted with anything less than a 6-figure income. Yeah I know. it's disgusting. It is what it is sadly.
|#20 by kittysan|
2018-10-01 at 09:33
|So like... I think much like any kind of VN, it's not a reflection of reality, and it honestly probably shouldn't be construed as such. I'd be a liiiiittle concerned if people were to assume how women/people are from a game, lol.|
|#21 by behappyeveryday|
2018-10-01 at 09:44
|@10 Otome designed to be liked by women and those games which could realise their desires get better ratings. So I assume what you could learn a little about what they dream. Of course learning what they want to be with handsome millionaire wouldn't help much, lol.|
@14 I don't talk about realism, I'm interested in how close otome games to romantic dreams women have. From romcom moege you could see a lot of truth about what men want - we want young girls (90% heroines are schoolgirls) who also virgins (95% of girls are virgins in romantic games) and interested only in us even if we are nothing special (which is why we could see how good for nothing MC loved by girls) and obviously all heroines are cute (or hot), all of this 100% truth about majority guys if we talk about what we find as a perfect romantic partner. Any girl could learn from it what we don't want to romance sluts, or old, or fat, or ugly, which could be revelation for most of them in modern society, lol.
Just by seeing some characters list of otome games you could see some difference - some heroes there handsome, some of them cute and some of them more brutal and masculine, majority guys there have either something "cool" about them or something strange (which makes them unique), also we could see much broader age range (some heroes from popular otome games actually middle-aged), so even without reading it could give you some glimpse to gender differences.
@16 Exactly. :)
@18 Can't you see contradiction in what you said? You first said what it wouldn't help understand what we want and then you say what it is realisation of fantasy and obviously fantasy is something what we want. I think what male-oriented eroge tells very clearly how most guys view perfect romantic relationships (which is different from sexual attraction). Most of us rather desperate and we date girls just to have someone to fuck, this is why we easily tolerate such shortcomings like girl fucking other guys before she met us, her having boring character and life, not loving us strong enough, having more important things to do than being with us, etc.
@19 Majority heroes in otome games don't have a lot of money, some of them even poor, there is even one game in which all heroes are in debt and main heroine buys them, like "slave-husband"s. Most guys who fuck a lot of girls IRL don't have a lot of money, but they are cool, popular, handsome, fit, skilled with words and frivolous. How much fangirls have Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Less than any random football player or actor. Women not attracted to guys with money, though there are always gold-diggers, but this is rather prostitution than attraction. 3 years in gym could make you more attractive to most girls than 6 digits in bank.Last modified on 2018-10-01 at 09:49
|#22 by pendelhaven|
2018-10-01 at 10:17
|#21 what you're arguing is the typical "bad boy" stereotype. For some ironic reasoning that I can't fathom, women get their pussies wet over bad boys and their pussies dry when you're a white knight simp. treat women like shit and they come back for more. I know I know, its very appalling.|
not that I'd want anything to do with them when its just one divorce court away into taking half your assets + demand child support and alimony.Last modified on 2018-10-01 at 10:18
|#23 by lordnight|
2018-10-01 at 10:46
You shouldn't really argue with pendel about women, he has issues about them.
Just by seeing some characters list of otome games you could see some difference - some heroes there handsome, some of them cute and some of them more brutal and masculine, majority guys there have either something "cool" about them or something strange (which makes them unique), also we could see much broader age range (some heroes from popular otome games actually middle-aged), so even without reading it could give you some glimpse to gender differences.I asked my Sister about this. She said that she simply likes to see that particular 'bad boy' grew an interest in her and how he manage his internal conflict in how to court her... It's cute apparently.
there is even one game in which all heroes are in debt and main heroine buys them, like "slave-husband"sYou mean Kane no Tame ni Kane wa Naru ?
Base on your argument then, yes. You can use otome games as a type of subjective opinion.
|#24 by pendelhaven|
2018-10-01 at 10:56
|#23 now we're into baseless accusations. I'm almost certain you're the typical white knight nice guy that will save the wahmenz in distress.|
pray do tell me, why is it that almost all VNs with male protag has at least one token loli while I don't see a single otoge featuring a shota?
you think I don't understand the wamenz? you're still a kid in comparison. grow up.
|#25 by lordnight|
2018-10-01 at 11:01
I'm sorry but I only see you as some guy who thinks that all Women who are not underage are liars.
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