Homophobia

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#1 by miuuzick
2018-10-26 at 13:21
I started Looking Glass and there is a thing that bothers me in this game since the beginning : the homophobia. My problem with it is how casual it is and how it serves no purpose whatsoever.

There was the whole ''liking a girl even though you're a girl?" in the first chapter, then in the third, there was Yuuki calling the guys 'faggots', and when Kagami had to masturbate in front of Takuji's cult and they asked her to think of the most important person in her life she looked over at Tsukasa, Takuji first thought was "wtf that makes her a lesbian" like the fact that they were sisters was secondary problem. etc

I know there is worse in the game, but these things aren't glorified however, the homophobia is just treated casually as normal and not considered a problem at all. And you could remove it, it wouldn't change the plot whatsoever.

Am I the only one ticked off by it?
#2 by onorub
2018-10-26 at 13:50
I hope you update this when you reach Jabberwocky I.
#3 by syona
2018-10-26 at 14:13
Really, I always thought subahibi was more gay-accepting than anything considering there's so much lesbian romance. Also, a good part of it is just to prepare the territory for sex scenes.Last modified on 2018-10-26 at 14:13
#4 by miuuzick
2018-10-26 at 15:10
#2 -> you intrigued me. I'll definitely update if there is something then.

#3 -> Yeah, I guess for a Japanese game in 2010 it's not that bad considering there is the lesbian romance to balance things out, but it still bothers me. Thanksfully, it's not so bad I have to stop reading so it's ok.
#5 by kamenreader
2018-10-26 at 17:16
It's not because a work of fiction potray homophobic character that the work itself is, since when character should not have flaws or defect? Especially given that in two exemples that you give the characters being homophobic are also violent, cruel and somewhat crazy it's not treated as normal because those characters are horrible person
#6 by kominarachromer
2018-10-26 at 17:33
"b-b-but you're a girl!" is such a common trope in anything yuri that's it's almost comical whenever it comes up. I didn't really read Tsukasa or Kagami's routes, so I can't say much other than that.

I wouldn't really call the yaoi rape scene homophobic per se. Tomosane is very...abrasive, yes, but it makes a lot more sense when you get to Jabberwocky. That's all I'll say on the matter.

And Takuji is Takuji. You shouldn't be too surprised by anything he says.
#7 by ermellino
2018-10-27 at 21:07
Game is not homophobic. Some characters are. Bad, very bad (and stupid) characters.
Describe some bad people is normal for, you know, art.

Sorry for my lame English.
#8 by nihilloligasan
2018-10-28 at 04:43
i'm surprised you didn't mention that the first sex scene of the main route is a traumatic gay rape scene.

anyways, as everyone else has said, i don't think sca-ji is necessarily homophobic, he's just trying to portray the characters in a sort of realistic manner. japan hasn't come as far as the west when it comes to lgbt acceptance.

plus, in jabberwocky, you get introduced to the bar master, who is a gay crossdresser. while he's portrayed in a comedic fashion, he's also a good guy.
#9 by bobjr2000
2018-10-28 at 05:56
I agree with rest of statements above I don't think its a VN promoting homophobia but has characters in story that might be. Like Huckleberry fin nonsense being racist.
#10 by clorust
2018-10-28 at 14:41
Doesn't sound like much a problem to be honest. Otherwise you end up with a western VN situation where most of the characters are homosexual/bisexual. I'm sure you're not one to complain about "paedophobia" in visual novels, this isn't really much different. Both are similarly niche and uncomfortable territories for most people.
#11 by krykry
2018-10-28 at 14:58
Even now Japan is a much more conservative country than some of the West, despite all the samesex content that you can find as entertainment in manga and games.
It's up to you whether you like it or not, but that's the culture Japanese live in: traditional values are much more appreciated than in the West, and leftist liberalism is scorned by the society to a far higher extent.
TLDR: SJWs stay away or Japan will eventually hurt your feelings.Last modified on 2018-10-28 at 15:00
#12 by kominarachromer
2018-10-28 at 17:08
#10 I think you're overemphasizing the role of LGBT characters in EVNs. Sure, there's more of them than in Japanese VNs, but homosexual/bisexual characters in JVNs are almost always just there for fetish value and rarely to express any sort of message or theme. Most EVNs are either bishoujo or otome, and a good portion of the remainder are the same sort of GL or BL written by straight men and women respectively that the Japanese market is so full of.

#11 As I understand it, Japan isn't significantly more conservative than the US is. It's just that there's more people on the far left in the West than in the East.
#13 by clorust
2018-10-28 at 17:24
but homosexual/bisexual characters in JVNs are almost always just there for fetish value and rarely to express any sort of message or theme.
Most LGBT characters in EVNs only exist to fulfill cheap drama points or appeal to an audience most probably originating from Tumblr or other predominantly leftist audiences (just take a look at low effort shovelware like Butterfly Soup).

In JVNs there's usually a good explanation for what would otherwise be an over-representation of of LGBT characters (for example, it takes place in an all-girls college). While homosexuality is more prevalent in the west, it's still around 3% of the population of a country at best, this makes them much more common in EVNs than they probably should be. Still, I don't really care because I don't normally read EVNs.

I can't understand why anyone would take offense to homosexuality being viewed negatively in media originating from a country where it's viewed negatively.
#14 by syona
2018-10-28 at 17:35
By the way, SJWs definitely exist in Japan. While it's true that LGBT rights aren't as accepted as they are in the west, just because you haven't been exposed to japanese LGBT activists doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact the movement is only growing there.
You guys just don't see it because you probably only frequent places they wouldn't ever go to. There are countless on twitter, and quite a few LGBT japanese youtubers.
#15 by bobjr2000
2018-10-28 at 20:44
Japan does have a very liberal base but its much smaller and condensed. Japan has over arching traditional base that is conservative but its conservative to asia and japan. Which can be different than the conservative west or usa more specifically talking.

read story about student and employee not being hired or having to dye hair black because that is suppose to be traditional japanese. Even though the people only had natural hair color that just happen to not be black or dark enough.
#16 by behappyeveryday
2018-12-15 at 14:12
This is ridiculous. Talking bad about person based on their sexuality isn't different from talking bad about person for any other reason. It doesn't make it more important. In this novel your so called "homophobia" is very minor detail and I wouldn't even think about it if not your post.

Hardcore bullying described in this game is much more terrible than any homophobia. If a person think what relationships between people of same gender are unacceptable then it is his right to have such opinion as long as he don't try to humiliate others based on this. And if he consciously humiliates others than it doesn't matter what reasons he have for it. It is not like humiliating someone because they are homosexual is worse than doing the same just because they are weak minded pushover or fat and ugly, or whatever. Also people have their complete right to treat homosexuality as something abnormal, because in a sense - it is, but the point is to understand things instead of blindly believing in one point of view or another. Homophobia is bs existing to make minorities feel special. And no, I don't have any hate or negative towards people of gender sexual orientation, in fact I have a gay friend and I also know what most women are bisexual by nature. But this isn't matter of opinion here, but rather a knowledge.Last modified on 2018-12-15 at 14:14
#17 by miuzix
2018-12-15 at 15:31
Although, what I can say is that, you really shouldn't mix fiction with reality. While it is true that a novel can influence someone's mind, like in my case, but don't forget that the novel only focuses in one thing or 2,it won't be the same as you're experiencing reality. It is still fiction, not everything would be in your way dude. But in reality's case, if there's homophobia, it's more of a misunderstanding really. People in years are just misunderstood with what they're seeing and you know what is complicated to understand makes different perspective and make that one belief everyone follows.Last modified on 2018-12-15 at 17:39
#18 by bobjr2000
2018-12-15 at 17:55
16# Wow thank you for that laugh.

"people have their complete right to treat homosexuality as something abnormal, because in a sense - it is"

"I also know what most women are bisexual by nature. But this isn't matter of opinion here, but rather a knowledge."
#19 by miuzix
2018-12-15 at 18:00
#18 well his name would make you happy everyday
#20 by behappyeveryday
2018-12-19 at 04:53
@18 Well, unlike bisexuality, homosexuality contradict to biological purpose of self-reproduction, so in a sense it could be considered as something abnormal for biological species. Basically homosexuality is a result of hormonal problems at embryonic stage of human development. From biological standpoint it is certainly divergence from normal. It isn't a matter of opinion here. It doesn't mean what you should look down on such people or humiliate them, it isn't their choice to be like this and it doesn't affect their worth as human beings.


As about women. Just check it out.
link

Basically almost any woman could be turned on by other woman. It is a fact and it isn't only study what proves it either. There are certain evolutional reasons for it as well. Most men could be aroused only by sexually attractive women (or something what looks like one - be it a trap, robot, or sex toy), so we assume it is the same for them as well. But the truth is women could be sexually aroused by ugly men and by other women as well. It just works different for them, that is all.Last modified on 2018-12-19 at 05:03
#21 by encrypted12345
2018-12-19 at 05:10
@17 Sadly, banning a work because some character within it has un-PC views (even when the work as a whole obviously disagrees with that person) is common enough these days. For example, To Kill a Mockingbird was banned in some places because of some characters being racist even though the work is obviously anti-racist, though I wouldn't be too surprised if it eventually got banned in some places because it involves a false rape accusation.Last modified on 2018-12-19 at 05:10
#22 by shonenkun
2018-12-19 at 11:12
I mean, like it or not but "'liking a girl even though you're a girl is weird" being presented as normal is just what some people think. People do call gays "faggots" and you can't hide from it. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it can't be in a visual novel. Even USA which is getting extremely awkward with the whole "let's make our culture right" has a great amount of people that would say such things. Let alone conservative Japan which still has a huge problem with birth rates.

I have not played the novel, but I'm just saying that you can't call it homophobia just because the characters say that. It doesn't tell you from a narrator's perspective "Being gay is bad" or something like that. Characters represent people and people do say that in real life, you can either get offended or help them understand that it's not a bad thing.
But you can't say that these phrases can't be in a visual novel, it's like saying that World War 2 games should have more women soldiers than men even though mostly men were the ones fighting and not having women in these games is "hateful" - it would simply be a lie.
And not mentioning the way some people react to gays would be a lie, too. Especially in an 18+ visual novel which aren't supposed to make the world a better place.

Some of the replies in this topic are extremely weird. "I know that most women are bisexual by nature", like what the hell? =/

Also I want to tell you that you probably don't even know what actual homophobia means. I lived in a country where they have actual gangs of those disgusting men who would pretend to "set up a date" with young gay people and then beat them up in a group; some openly gay people are getting attacked all the time and here you are being offended by a novel having some characters saying that? I don't understand how this whole "equality movement" can try to overwrite the history, to force the "correct" culture and sink all the "incorrect" one when it can't do as little as talk to people from other countries and get to know what homophobia really is and how bad it is in some countries.Last modified on 2018-12-19 at 11:26
#23 by bobjr2000
2018-12-19 at 12:26
“Although some lesbians were more masculine in their sexual arousal, and others were more masculine in their behaviours, there was no indication that these were the same women,” explained Dr Rieger, from the Department of Psychology. “This shows us that how women appear in public does not mean that we know anything about their sexual role preferences. Men are simple, but women’s sexual responses remain a mystery.”

even own study has its contradictions between people and want to generalize.


link
#24 by miuzix
2018-12-20 at 08:11
It's really obvious that were fighting initially is overwritten already by others who are overdemanding about one's social right. Like understanding we already know is somewhat telling someone who has psychological disorders and having arguments with it. We are not stupid to realize that yet people are protesting of it. Where's the creativity of one's novel if there's no situations like this and then what? We'll be surely limited with our thoughts even though people are fighting freedom of expression or speech. People nowadays are just double standard as a whole.

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