How "liberal" is the translation?

Posted in

#1 by luther
2018-10-31 at 03:47
I'm saying this because I don't want to deal with another Fureraba.
#2 by encrypted12345
2018-10-31 at 03:56
From what I hear, it has issues, but not in the memetastic Fureraba way. IIRC, it's because of a different editor.

Still, if you're unsure, pirate then pay if it meets your standards. It's better than pirating and not paying or paying and asking for a refund.Last modified on 2018-10-31 at 03:57
#3 by kominarachromer
2018-10-31 at 04:01
#2 I do wonder why English localization companies are so averse to providing trials, especially when it's so common with Japanese releases. I guess they just don't want people to realize how shit their translations are before they buy the VN.
#4 by encrypted12345
2018-10-31 at 04:24
Trials are extra work, and if you really halfass it, then people would be able to extract the full game from it. I also remember hearing that it doesn't help Steam sales.Last modified on 2018-10-31 at 04:24
#5 by rinchan3853
2018-10-31 at 06:59
As far as I know there was nothing wrong with the translation to Fureraba.
#6 by d2o
2018-10-31 at 09:19
Haven't finished reading it yet, but it does go overly liberal at times.
But overall it's a pretty good translation and doesn't detract one from enjoying the game.
#7 by sakurakoi
2018-10-31 at 10:31
As far as I know there was nothing wrong with the translation to Fureraba.
Denial, first stage of grief
I guess they just don't want people to realize how shit their translations are before they buy the VN.
Anger, second stage
Trials are extra work, and if you really halfass it, then people would be able to extract the full game from it. I also remember hearing that it doesn't help Steam sales.
Bargain, third
Still, if you're unsure, pirate then pay if it meets your standards. It's better than pirating and not paying or paying and asking for a refund.
Depression, 4
Haven't finished reading it yet, but it does go overly liberal at times.
But overall it's a pretty good translation and doesn't detract one from enjoying the game.
Acceptance, fifth and last

I really can't help but adore this thread, Human Psyche Banzai!
Huh? I was a tad too liberal in interpreting your emotions? Don't mind, don't mind~

Needless to say they should just go to hell, damn liberals, hypocrites who gladly remove individual character quirks when they don't want them! Seriously, it is just sad how those are no better if not worse than MTLs in regards of losing the original meanings. Sure, reading flows better (unless it is an edited MTL which rather Web Novels have) but I more rarely don't get the meaning because of google-sensei than I encounter the Japanese Voice being significantly different to the English "localization".Last modified on 2018-10-31 at 10:32
#8 by asaki
2018-10-31 at 11:00
You forgot extra stage though, namely that 'Just ignore what the experts say in regard of translation and decided to yourself whether the translation is good or not', in which it should apply to any VN translation really.Last modified on 2018-10-31 at 11:00
#9 by sakurakoi
2018-10-31 at 11:25
^So... one has to buy each VN twice? (When one might not even want to buy it once, not to even mention the time invested which is not even deemed fun by many)
Or do you say that it is an informed decision if one can not even understand the original? (heck, my humble skills also have only be polished by 8 years of anime&VN plus a year of Japan-bu, which was not an Otaku/Weeabo/Whatever-Club but actually to learn the language)

also, the extra stages are actually shock and awe, er, I mean shock and testing~
#10 by lightning-rod
2018-10-31 at 11:43
^"Eat your hamburgers, Apollo"
#11 by eltonan
2018-10-31 at 20:48
Considering NekoNyan is going to be translating Ao no Kanata no Four Rhythm and Hello Lady!, I predict there's going to be a lot more backlash in the future if their translations are as liberal as you claim since those vn's seem to have a bigger fanbase. (I've seen a fair amount of people praising the quality of the writing in those vns).Last modified on 2018-11-01 at 00:27
#12 by bakauchuujin
2018-10-31 at 22:01
I haven't read their VNs yet because I am waiting for physical releases, but from my understanding most people like their translations. To my understanding there are just some people hating on it since they translated very informal japanese to informal english which includes swearing (something japanese pretty much don't have). Though take this with a grain of salt since I have yet to read it.
#13 by dk382
2018-10-31 at 23:47
Liberal translations are good, actually. Don't @ me.
#14 by kominarachromer
2018-11-01 at 00:47
The degree to which liberties can be taken with the translation varies depending on what audience it's aimed at.

AAA video games developed in Japan, for instance, generally have very liberal localizations. The average gamer is likely to have no knowledge of Japanese or Japanese culture, so oftentimes the script has to be completely rewritten.

That's not Fureraba. Fureraba is a niche moege aimed at an audience that's likely familiar to some degree with Japanese cultue and mannerisms, and yet the editor still tried to "Westernize" the script. Despite all of the cussing and valley-girl style abuse of the word "literally", Fureraba's writing still felt Japanese. So you have characters that are clearly Japanese and who are talking about clearly Japanese things, yet they still talk like American teenagers. It's an inconsistent translation that has a severe identity crisis between wanting to be a liberal translation and a literal translation, and it would've been far easier to read if they had just stuck to one or the other.

I'm pretty sure that Sanoba had a different editor, so it'll probably be more literal. I don't know for sure, and I don't care to find out.

#11 Aokana has pretty standard moege prose and it's often recommended to newer untranslated readers, so it probably won't be a problem. Admittedly, the same should've applied to Fureraba, but, as I stated earlier, that was more of an editing problem than an actual translation problem.

Hello Lady is a bigger issue. The prose is long-winded and dense, and there's a lot of strange vocabulary. I don't want to make any snap judgements, but I have the feeling there'll be some issues in translation with that one.
#15 by ramaladni
2018-11-01 at 02:44
I actually read Fureraba and felt it was heavily americanized. I feel that something such as "too liberal" exists.
#16 by d2o
2018-11-01 at 06:43
Here's something that an Editor I know said before:
Don't go blaming Editors for translations you don't like.
They aren't translators, they aren't responsible for TL decisions or TLCing the entire script. They only make sure it reads good, removing strange words and phrases that no english speaker would say out loud, improving readability. Some don't even touch the script if it reads well already.

As for the translation itself, it is... interesting:
They go out of their way to add honorifics where there aren't any, small rewrites here and there like example I posted, and removal of some character quirks.
Now don't misunderstand me here; Like I said I'm enjoying the game just fine, but I'd like to hear the logic behind these TL decisions.

"Eat your hamburgers, Apollo"
STAAAPH repeating that please.
Like kominarachromer said, AAA Japanese games have very liberal localizations because they aren't made with Otaku in mind.
The Ace Attorney games are well localized. The only fuck up is when the original devs. started to add very obvious Japanese references here and there with every game, pulling the translators into a pit they can't get out now.Last modified on 2018-11-01 at 06:44
#17 by ramaladni
2018-11-01 at 07:15
#16 Such as special English edition karuta cards.
#18 by lightning-rod
2018-11-01 at 21:22
^"You'll eat your hamburgers and YOU WILL LIKE THEM, Apollo!"
#19 by dk382
2018-11-01 at 22:04
As for the translation itself, it is... interesting:
They go out of their way to add honorifics where there aren't any, small rewrites here and there like example I posted, and removal of some character quirks.
Now don't misunderstand me here; Like I said I'm enjoying the game just fine, but I'd like to hear the logic behind these TL decisions.
Okay, so I actually am the editor on this project (for everything aside from the Nene route) so I can answer these questions.

We are not consciously adding honorifics to the script where there aren't any. If this has happened, it may have been a mistake. One of the things I've seen people pointing out is the changing of "Togakushi-kaichou" to "Togakushi-senpai." We did that because "kaichou" is not an honorific most readers would understand, and "President Togakushi" comes off as extremely formal in English, to the point where I'd suspect any student addressing a student council president that way is either also in the council and engaging in some kind of formal council procedure with them, or they're being a snarky asshole (or, an obsessed admirer, incidentally). So we decided to have Nene address Touko as she normally would in that scene. The purpose that line serves is to introduce Touko as the student council president, but that's already done adequately enough, we felt.

The "small rewrites" are always for the sake of more natural-sounding and better flowing conversations. The one that has been pointed out, translating お邪魔しまーす as "So this is your house," fits that. Literal translations of "お邪魔しまーす" are boring and often sound awkward in English. So we translated it as something that basically expresses the same thing, even if the meaning isn't literally the same. It's now a thing someone would actually say in English when entering someone's house. The literal meaning isn't as important as getting across the feeling being expressed, which in my opinion our translation does well. This phrase falls in the same category as "yoroshiku" and "shikataganai", in that it's better to translate them on a case-by-case basis in the way that makes sense for the given situation, instead of sticking to one or two stock translations, hoping that one size fits all (it doesn't).

As for the character quirks, third person speech is simply not acceptable in English. No professional translation keeps that kind of quirk, and with good reason. Most English readers will simply be baffled by it or think of the character as acting bizarre in some way that's wholly different from how a Japanese reader perceives the character. Even among weebs like us. "Onee-san" is a trickier subject, and the team was actually split on how to handle it. Even I was conflicted a little. In the end, I decided that we'd try expressing her general attitude through other means, and I think we did a good job at doing so, but I'm weeb enough to understand the appeal of leaving it as-is. I'll continue thinking about this decision and how to handle it whenever I inevitably run into it again in the future.Last modified on 2018-11-01 at 22:24
#20 by eltonan
2018-11-01 at 22:18
Honestly I get the whole "Eat your hamburgers, Apollo" meme. No-one wants another "these rice balls are jelly donuts" incident. On the other hand translators do need to take some liberties with certain phrases. I once read an amateur translation where they translated senpai literally as senior and it was the worst because no one speaks like that in English.Last modified on 2018-11-01 at 22:34
#21 by dk382
2018-11-01 at 22:36
Most VN companies tend to be pretty relaxed with this kind of stuff. NekoNyan specifically aspires to be transparent. I'm not sharing any confidential secrets or anything, just some general translation philosophy stuff :p.
#22 by d2o
2018-11-01 at 23:20
#19
Thanks for taking the time to answer me my man.

We are not consciously adding honorifics to the script where there aren't any...
I see. I agree with this point.

The "small rewrites" are always for the sake of more natural-sounding and better flowing conversations...
I understand. Maybe it's because I'm used to these stock translations that I notice these changes? Either way, they're really not much of a problem, just wanted to heard the logic behind them.

As for the character quirks, third person speech is simply not acceptable in English...
Aye. Like I said, that's an industry standard. Even fanTLs nowadays remove it. Some things just simply aren't happening, like Bokukko.

"Onee-san" is a trickier subject...
I see. I would've preferred you left it in, but even an English equivalent like "big sis" would've been nice. Oh well.

#20
I'd imagine it's something like "Always be polite, even when the other party is not". You become jaded on the inside however.
Take Dovac (former SP CEO and stock holder) for example. As a result of getting into so many fights with the community he became quite infamous.Last modified on 2018-11-01 at 23:20
#23 by aakari
2018-11-07 at 00:26
"So this is your house" not only doesn't mean the same thing as お邪魔します, but also destroys Touko's character. Should've kept that line in the oven a little longer.Last modified on 2018-11-07 at 00:31
#24 by infernoplex
2018-11-07 at 01:26
As for the character quirks, third person speech is simply not acceptable in English. No professional translation keeps that kind of quirk, and with good reason. Most English readers will simply be baffled by it or think of the character as acting bizarre in some way that's wholly different from how a Japanese reader perceives the character. Even among weebs like us.

#19 - I guess you didn't read euphoria then (Rika's third person quirk of speech was retained just fine there). Unless we're saying Cafe and MangaGamer did a poor job on it? xD
#25 by yoseinosakuhin
2018-11-07 at 16:57
#19
Why can't you just admit you're wrong?

Reply

You must be logged in to reply to this thread.