How fucked up is this game really?

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#76 by evanescentblade
2015-06-19 at 15:43
@kiru, I can agree with this, thank you. I was not trying to define a "right" way to approach the extreme content though; my main complaint is just people putting down or ridiculing others for skipping.
#77 by babymetal
2015-06-19 at 16:54
#74
I'd say it's imperative to get to participate in. If you're to touch the deepest depth of subahibi's deepness, of course. I pity those who have argued so cogently and verbose for the omission of the dark h-scenes. Who knows, you even might end up liking it or better yet give your own hole to somebody you love...
#75
We're not all that different, mate. You shall see.
#78 by finjas
2015-06-19 at 17:08
SubaHibi is all about being fucked up and philosophy. It consists of extreme scenes. Twisted, insane and made to disgust you.
It's just that kind of game. And if you can't stomach it, why read it in the first place?

People are asking if they can skip these scenes and they get an answer: these scenes are important. They have way more purpose than other random hentai scenes in the majority of other visual novels. Whether you can stomach them or not doesn't change the fact.
Yet you aggressively try to make it look like it does. Are you saying that it's okay to skip most of fucked up content in the game that is all about being fucked up?
Yes, this does "cast a shadow on the experience". Yes, it does make you miss out a great deal. It's like watching porn for the plot. Or reading a grim dark drama for comic relief moments. Maybe you enjoy such things as you enjoyed Suba with skips. That's good for you. But it has nothing to do with anything.
Nobody is trying to deny you the right of making a choice of whether to skip or not for yourself. But just think logically for a second: The game is made like that on purpose. You are skipping things that make the game the way it is. Why would you be offended when somebody says that your approach is less right than reading the work the way it was intended?Last modified on 2015-06-19 at 17:16
#79 by babymetal
2015-06-19 at 17:54
And yet, the idea of living your life to the fullest is above everything else. Because there's nothing wonderful in your plain day-to-day life. Yeah, now I start to see the bigger picture. The game is rising above the mediocrity that surrounds it. Suba'll rebel against anything!
#80 by supervamp78
2015-06-19 at 20:11
Hmm well some of the extreme are really plot relevant but a lot of the sex isn't and I wouldn't say zakuro's stuff is but it helps seeing how much shit she went through.
Hell I'd say most of denpa's delusions aren't that relevant either.
#81 by evanescentblade
2015-06-19 at 21:04
So we're still at this, I see... sigh.

I guess we're just gonna have to disagree on how insanely, absolutely important it is to read through the fucked-up content word-for-word. In my opinion, you don't miss out a great deal if you just know the gist of what happened, but you don't agree. Okay then. I really don't feel like repeating myself again and again.

Just... even if you disagree, please don't bully or look down on people who decide to skip some of the extreme content. At least act like you learned something practical from SubaHibi, from the VN that shows just how terrible and fucked-up bullying and hate in general can be.
#82 by finjas
2015-06-19 at 22:25
Since when saying that somebody is wrong and backing up this statement with arguments and explanations equals bullying?Last modified on 2015-06-19 at 22:29
#83 by evanescentblade
2015-06-19 at 23:17
What arguments? Neither of us has given any concrete details and examples from the VN regarding how thoroughly reading the extreme content is necessary/unnecessary to enjoy/understand/appreciate SubaHibi, because that'd be lots of spoilers. You wanna get into an in-depth spoiler discussion on that? I really don't feel like it...

Alright sorry, not exactly bullying, but you should get what I mean. Just don't be rude or condescending to people who choose to skip the content; babymetal already called someone a "lowlife" (also implied that we're "mediocrity") for trying to avert his/her gaze.Last modified on 2015-06-19 at 23:22
#84 by zeality
2015-06-19 at 23:56
Subarashiki Hibi's plot is simple enough to be understood and appreciated even if one is skipping through the H dialogues/narratives. Of course, it is a matter of fact that one has to read everything in the story if they want to come to a deep understanding of the story's entirety due to the utter relevance of that everything, but if one doesn't even value that prospect over the other I mentioned in the first place, then there should be no problem here considering people do differ in value systems.

This is.. probably my futile effort in expressing my thoughts here. xD H-hahaha...Last modified on 2015-06-20 at 00:04
#85 by evanescentblade
2015-06-20 at 00:04
Thank you zeality for acknowledging both sides of the debate, though I still don't really agree that one has to read every line of the H dialogues to come to a deep understanding of the story. One can just know that the (disturbing) H scenes happened, and that'd be enough material to form deductions and conclusions. It's not impossible to deeply understand SubaHibi if the person doesn't thoroughly read the extreme content, basically. Might take a little more brain/imaginative power maybe, but certainly not impossible.Last modified on 2015-06-20 at 00:07
#86 by zeality
2015-06-20 at 00:41
That is true, as one could infer what happened in any of those scenes and still grasp the theme and then its root (which is what I mean when I say 'deep understanding of the story's entirety'). However, to be able to do that means you have to know the nature of these scenes via a reference, like for example, experiencing scenes like those already in a thematically-similar story.

The reason for this is in SubaHibi's case has to do with the flowering of its theme at a later point in the story entirely relying on earlier information interwoven into certain H dialogues/narratives. That information in that form is only given to you once, and if you happen to miss it, you might not even be able to 'see' the flowering of the themes in this later point happen the way it should or at all. Though I say 'might' because you could very well have the reference to guess it on the spot.

If there's any consolation here, the information itself isn't specific so it's probably not contained in many of the lines during these scenes, as well as probably not the majority of the scenes themselves. And anyways, technically you could understand the theme's root from other forms of the information presented in various other scenes aside from the H ones. This would just become a case where you didn't 'see' the flowering of themes as the author intended, but you still managed to understand the core of them.

I guess then it'd work out whether or not you skip these scenes. :>Last modified on 2015-06-20 at 00:48
#87 by babymetal
2015-06-20 at 03:34
This never cease to amaze me how thought(debate)-provoking the game is.
#83
Just screwing around, ducky. I even chose this goofy nickname to not be taken seriously.
#88 by hyperknees91
2015-06-20 at 04:42
Yeah no need to make yourself suffer. Unless of course you want to be a masochist just to prove your experiencing the story the way the author intended. I imagine most people tolerate the scenes in this game because they are either desensitized to the scenes like I am (watched too much messed up crap in my life hah) or because it just morally doesn't bother them too much (some people probably even fap to these scenes honestly).

Like the earlier guy said, there's no proper way to enjoy a story, so just read it in a fashion you find the most comfortable. If something bothers you so much it affects your enjoyment, then skip it or just drop the story. It's like playing a video game with sections you hate but otherwise you enjoy the rest of the game. You probably wouldn't feel any shame from skipping them if you could =pLast modified on 2015-06-20 at 04:44
#89 by evanescentblade
2015-06-20 at 05:05
@87, Is the only reason you mentioned that you're "just screwing around" and "not to be taken seriously" because I incited you to say that with my provocation? No one likes being called out for saying something rude or pretentious, after all. Would you have said that you're just messing around if I never brought up the topic in the first place?

The Internet is filled with people who casually make rude or cruel comments without considering how their words may hurt or offend others. And often times, the "just screwing around, [sorry about that]" never shows up, and even if it did, it doesn't so easily excuse someone from the possible effect of his/her words on another person.

Yeah, I'm probably annoying people with this lecture of mine, but I just had to get it out, sorry.
#90 by babymetal
2015-06-20 at 05:39
>The Internet is filled
When why are you here? Go pick up flowers of something. vndb isn't your personal rabbit warren.

No hard feelings, Mr. Annoyed by well-bred internet behavior :^)
#91 by asaki
2015-06-20 at 05:46
Okay so the conclusion is that we should ignore babymetal in the first place anyway because he should not take seriously. Hmmmm okay, in this case I think the best word for you is well, sorry beforehand, is your life in delirium that you imagined that you the god of vn. In other word, I think you more like the one who got bullied or even get hit in the real life, and you'll unleash your rage in this forum. Now that you mentioned it, looks like you take liking to Takuji too much that you emulate his life.

Well sorry once again. Just ignore my comment okay, and if babymetal responded it I think it will prove my statements are true. Call my post retard or anything, but I think you fail to explain what SubaHibi offer in yaoi scene, so I think you should not insult people who choose to skip it. As a matter of opinion, I think I will read it while hold my hand at mouth(And you can reread it in ero replay anyway iirc).Last modified on 2015-06-20 at 05:48
#92 by evanescentblade
2015-06-20 at 05:51
And that's another typical response, that "lol, that's just the way the Internet is, deal with it or leave".
That's not an excuse to just say whatever you want to people without any sort of consideration.

But fine, no hard feelings. I'm getting tired of this whole discussion anyway.

@asaki, while I appreciate your support, I think you went a bit too far there. Some of what you said could be considered pretty rude and offensive, just saying. I don't know how babymetal would take that.Last modified on 2015-06-20 at 05:56
#93 by asaki
2015-06-20 at 05:58
@92 Yes I realize it. But I think I made the comment in one goal, attacking babymetal so yeah, maybe it's a little rude for the people outside it. And usually I very careful to comment here(or not) so I will not get banned like the OP of this thread, but sorry if my post came off as rude to you.

@babymetal I heard flower is very beautiful, so I think you should be the one who pick it and see the flower in order to calm your mind
#94 by babymetal
2015-06-20 at 06:22
#91
Welp, takes one to know one.
>I heard
Were you raised in a desert? :^)
#95 by asaki
2015-06-20 at 08:25
........

Well whatever, and I get it that you should not skip yaoi scene. I know SubaHibi is great but unfortunately the animal world didn't knew that. I already tried to spread the news, but no result. So maybe could you help me to spread the greatness of SubaHibi to animal world? Thanks for hearing my request.

PS there is one trope for you that I forgot, babymetalLast modified on 2015-06-20 at 19:33
#96 by babymetal
2015-06-20 at 19:31
We could and would. I'll paint my chihuahua in colors proper to Tsukasa.
#97 by thomasjones
2016-08-05 at 01:21
sorry to ask this on a random old thread but can anyone share a spoiler for the ending for me please? I cannot find a review that spoils the entire end. I'm just wondering because i'll never read this in a million years because of the rape and such but I am wondering why it got so highly rated because of the end.
#98 by asaki
2016-08-05 at 08:15
To answer 97, here's the review that spoil SubaHibi link#. Hope it could help here.
#99 by adormus
2016-12-16 at 14:04
This is a wonderful VN. But one I'll never finish. Ever since the 2nd fight between Takuji and Yuuki during It's my own invention it became harder and harder for me to read on. I wanted to stop reading when Zakuro met Takuji on the roof during Looking Glass Insect. And I did now definitely in Jabberwocky because it confirmed everything.

I can handle rape, insanity, depravity, bullying and death. But for some reason I can't handle Dissociative Identity Disorders, where personalities can just vanish without a trace. That's just way more fucked up than any of the other crap in this VN.Last modified on 2016-12-16 at 14:04

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