Takashima Zakuro and other stuff.

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#1 by afiqhamizan
2013-08-16 at 14:02
Let me start by pointing out, I am no a very big fan(I hate) of most rape stuffs. Especially if a girl and many males are involved(the gang rape tag) and bullying for that matter and suicide(not a fan of most things that has something to do with cute girls getting tortured you see).
So please, help me understand, are all the rape scenes avoidable?only women rapeing and protagonists(male) getting raped?.
If all goes well, i think i might try it out.
Thanks in advance^^
#2 by surferdude
2013-08-16 at 15:12
g574 desu.
#3 by herki
2013-08-16 at 16:00
Yes, it's avoidable. You don't have to do Zakuro's route in Insects, but you'd be missing a very important part of the game if you skipped it.
#4 by afiqhamizan
2013-08-17 at 09:33
@herki, Thank you, appreciate it(pretty happy now),but what do you mean by insects?
@surferdude, wut...
#5 by gerardlonewolf
2013-08-17 at 10:28
"Insect" is the chapter title I assume.Last modified on 2013-08-17 at 10:51
#6 by bminorkey
2013-09-23 at 17:49
be sure to play both routes in insects
#7 by krafty
2013-09-23 at 21:31
I just finished one of the 2 routes in Looking Glass Insects, the one where Zakuro does get raped, and I have to say that Megu and Satoko are two of the most detestable characters I've ever had the displeasure of reading. I seriously wanted to punch the screen several times throughout the route. I'm pretty sure that's what the author was going for though, so hats off to him (her?). Zakuro herself is pretty dumb for getting swept into situations so easily, but at least she's aware of it.

On another note, Jabberwocky is a very pleasant read so far...if the quality keeps up, I might finally be able to award a 9, something I'm sure I haven't done for a couple of years.
#8 by habluka
2013-09-24 at 04:05
Don't bully Zakuro. Also, I'm pretty sure SCA自 is male.
#9 by myopius
2013-09-24 at 05:24
You do have to play through "that" in Looking-glass Insects in order to move on to Jabberwocky. There are several chapters in SubaHibi in which you must get a specific end in order to unlock the next chapter. But unless you don't like the characters and just want to plow through it, you should really get every end--the way events diverge really made the characters, at least for me. Especially not knowing whether I was going down the true route or not, having events turn out kind of happy as I'd dared to hope, then after the end seeing that the next chapter wasn't unlocked, then having to go back and make the choice I didn't want to make and experience directly the tragic and/or bittersweet truths of this story before being able to move onto the next chapter. I believe SubaHibi was designed to lead the player to want to make the choice that leads to the alternate end, which enhances the experience that I just described. (Spoiler is about the route structure, not anything plot-related.)
#10 by bminorkey
2013-09-24 at 17:05
#7: holy shit did you not read what i just said

play both routes now

or you don't deserve to rate this game

you don't get to save it for later

play it nowLast modified on 2013-09-24 at 17:07
#11 by vvav
2013-09-24 at 21:33
Don't play Subahibi if you're a pussy.
#12 by manwithnoplan
2013-09-24 at 22:03
as far as I know, the sex scenes in Suba Hibi reflect plot and/or character, if its in there for a reason the author intended for them to be read, If you don't want to read rape scenes tough it out or don't play the game at all, many great eroge have sex scenes but are still worth reading so unless you're disrespecting the author by not properly reading the Visual novel. If you aren't mature enough to handle subject matter such as gang rape Suba Hibi is not for you.
#13 by herki
2013-10-01 at 02:47
Well, some of the scenes Sca-ji didn't write and don't really add anything.

The Zakuro stuff sure does, though.
#14 by afiqhamizan
2013-11-12 at 08:29
Sorry for the late reply guys(and gals if any),
@bminorkey, alright man, just busy with exams so im just researching on what im going to play when the holiday starts(I still don't know if i should do that though.).
@Krafty, got it man, well then, looks like there are going to be a few additions to my mental character hate list XD
@myopius, thanks for the help !
@vvav, kay~
@manwithnoplan(love the name), Hahha, okay, i honestly do not want to disrespect the author, but self respect is what i want to go for first("think about yourself before others", or so they say. I honestly don't want to see rape. Not that i want innocence, i just don't want to see too much of that side of humanity while i still can...
@herki, Well, more things to consider then XD

Still, thanks for the reply and criticism guys(and gals), I think over time I'll play it. Not sure how that'll go though.
Have a nice day!
#15 by tosiaki
2016-05-18 at 18:09
Sca-ji said that in writing the bullying scenes, he intended to write it realistically and did it while doing research by hearing and reading stories that come from real life. In other words, the bullying in Looking Glass Insects has some real-life stories mixed in it and Sca-ji wrote that "the way people become feeble when they're drugged" is one of those things.

Sca-ji wrote that "while men might question 'why is this bullying so brutal,' women who have worked with me have told me that bullying between girls really is like this." Sca-ji wrote that in his investigations, he's found that the real world really is this brutal and unfeeling. (All this comes from the "Subarashiki Hibi Official Visual Archive")

The people who say that Insects is a "weak chapter" are probably unaware of this, of course.Last modified on 2016-05-18 at 18:47
#16 by kiru
2016-05-18 at 18:46
Reality doesn't care about good story-telling. If you write something fictional (as in not something that's mostly based on real events) there is no need to be absolutely realistic. There are tons of totally realistic things you'd never use in storytelling as they kill the flow for nothing or just don't work. Heck, anticlimactic resolutions of problems are super realistic as well.

So, that out of the way, I have no idea how things are in this. I do however know some stuff of Ryukishi07 who has a bullying fetish to somewhat absurd levels. And all I can say is: Realistic or not, it's annoying. And that's something you really need to be careful of with that topic. Of course this isn't about the "strength" of the bullying, but about the detail and how long it's shown and what it wants to actually achieve.
The usual problem is that for what portrayal of bullying wants to achieve it tends to overstay its welcome. Kinda like when an author wants to REALLY show how BAD and EVIL some villain is to the point that he lets them kick cats and crap.
Another problem is, that tons of people know about bullying already, so given that this is a generic topic that doesn't really change with different characters, if you've read one "bullying" story, you've read them all. The whole thing is meant to be simply unfair, unjust and so on. There's little room for grey, little room for characters giving this a unique spin. It's almost more or less the exact same. Makes it even harder for an author to write well.


This is, of course, also up to opinion. Some don't mind coming into bullying stories again and again, even if it's pretty much the same all the time and just a whole lot of "hey look how evil and unjust this is!". But to me this is boring. To the point where I tend to ignore stories that rely too much on it, as it tends to go not too well. I think I only know one real exception there. it was an anime that only showed what was necessary to understand the generic situation while being more busy with the character, the thoughts, the overall plot and so on while not showing dozens of events of the actual bullying. That's how I like it.
Not sure if there's a "right" and "wrong" when it comes to bullying portrayal, but I really think it's one of the flattest storytelling devices there is. Maybe that's just me.
#17 by danny1145
2016-05-18 at 21:58
@Kiru If you dislike bullying scenes in general, then this is simply not for you. Hell, it even has "bullying" tagged on it. I personally thought that the bullying scenes helped evoke strong emotions for the characters, despite the fact that they were very drawn out. It sounds to me like you are just trying to find something to complain about here. The first rule to storytelling is "show, not tell", and that is exactly what Sca-ji did. If he just said "she got bullied and died", it would have absolutely no impact whatsoever. By using the scenes in the game, he is making us invested in the character who is bullied, loath the characters who bully her, and feel tension or sadness when something goes wrong with the bullied character. There are absolutely no characters in any written piece of work that I have utterly despised more than Satoko and Megu, which just shows to me how masterful Sca-ji is by making them seem like truly psychopathic people instead of just over-the-top villains who do bad things just because they're the villains.

The reasons for their bullying does truly seem like something that would happen in a realistic situation. Also, the VN has to have some kind of realism to it. It's supposed to be a serious story with a central theme, and the author could not have achieved it even a fourth as well if he had decided to make it another "SUPER MOE HAREM BATTLE: THE VISUAL NOVEL #4556778". If you can't deal with the nitty gritty, depressing shit then you probably shouldn't be playing a damn UTSUGE.
#18 by arkt
2016-05-19 at 00:09
@danny I wouldn't really call all of the bullying realistic, like I literally rolled my eyes a few times at how stupid it got after a while. I got what they were trying to do, but they really didn't need half of the scenes that were there.
#19 by tosiaki
2016-05-19 at 01:40
@arkt
If you really think they didn't need half the scenes that were there, you could go with Tsui no Sora, the predecessor game instead. Tsui no Sora is less than 1/6 as long even though it covers chapters 1-3 of Subarashiki Hibi and therefore is a lot more summarized in comparison. Of course, you'd suppose the reason why most don't think Tsui no Sora is nearly as good as Subarashiki Hibi is because SubaHibi does draw things out like that. This especially goes for Zakuro's part of the story in Tsui no Sora: it was really short and as a result it felt a lot more comedic rather than tragic.

Though I have heard that Ayana and Yokoyama Yasuko and Kiyoshi and Kiyogawa-sensei played bigger roles in Tsui no Sora, but that's getting off topic.
#20 by danny1145
2016-05-19 at 18:30
@arkt How do you know it isn't realistic? Most prepubescent girls are vain creatures, and loathe anyone who seems like they may be trying to be better than them. They are blinded by their vanity, so they choose to prey on those that are meeker. It just so happened that Zakuro was far more beautiful than they were, and was very quiet.

It doesn't seem like you've experienced bullying, because the rule of bullying is to prey on those who seem like they don't have anyone to help them, and to constantly mentally wear them down so as to keep them miserable. As someone who has experienced bullying first hand for four years, I can say that it is in actuality one of the most realistic portrayals of bullying I've ever seen.
#21 by arkt
2016-05-19 at 21:43
@danny1145 Are you kidding me? If the game just had the part on the roof and some of the less specific scenes then it would be believable. There was absolutely nothing believable about the sliced up skirt dancing part, the drug filming and the rape scene. It just kind of felt like the author was trying to create as much shock value as possible with that part.Last modified on 2016-05-19 at 21:50
#22 by tosiaki
2016-05-19 at 21:48
@arkt
Are you basing those opinions from just your imagination or from actual observations and reports from reality?
#23 by arkt
2016-05-19 at 21:51
@tosiaki Even from within the game itself those three scenes are illogical. Megu and Satoko literally felt remorse after the roof part so what made them decide to go 100x further?
#24 by tosiaki
2016-05-19 at 22:24
Sca-ji wrote that he investigated real-life stories while writing this and that women who worked with him have told him that bullying between girls is like this. I think that's more reliable than just judging from your imagination. And you do realize that the roof part was several months before the main story, right?
#25 by arkt
2016-05-19 at 22:30
I don't believe him when he says that, especially when you consider the part with Ayumi. Several months is still a really short time to go from feeling bad about indirectly hurting someone to intentionally doing all that stuff to them.

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