Is this VN Kusoge now?

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#51 by infernoplex
2017-09-30 at 21:12
#50 - You should really mark up most of that post as spoilers xD (in case a random person browse this thread at some point).

Anyways, regarding Kimika's injury, I don't remember that being ever said clearly (or maybe it was said during Takuji's chapter when he meets her for the first time?) but still, even if that's the case, it's definitively not a good execution and that whole chapter of Zakuro feels weak. What's even the core message of the good ending there? At the end, they would have gotten raped both if there was no Tomosane to save the day back then. The core difference between good and bad ending in Zakuro's chapter only amounts to whether Tomosane is present or not. The whole "Zakuro becoming brave", didn't feel believable once Tomosane gets in the picture. Zakuro was way more interesting as a character in the first chapter with Yuki then all the other times she appears in the VN.

Also, what you said about Kimika being aware of Tomosane's MPD could partially explain one of the plotholes regarding her first meeting with "Yuki" in Down the Rabbit Hole 2. And I also had that kind of theory since Kimika's route at the end of Takuji's chapter gave such an impression that she partially or fully understands what's up with Tomosane. But still, that kind of plot twisting and those explanations, it's all one very huge convoluted mess that I don't like. Simply, I don't believe in any of it, the whole Tomosane's MPD felt not fully believable to me hence why I didn't like that plot twist at all (actually, there were too many hints at some points to even consider it such a huge twist at the end xD).
#52 by silentrzk
2017-10-01 at 09:46
#51 - Oh sorry about that lol well I marked it now as spoilers.

About on Zakuro's chapter, I agree with you it's badly executed. In fact, I also want to know what ACTUALLY happened to her though I think I'm pretty sure she didn't get raped since she's still virgin until she had sex with Takuji. Not only that, it seems on this setting, it's fixed that characters particularly Zakuro gets raped at night. Kimika's beaten down during the day. I don't know why but I feel that's the impression I got on this game such as Zakuro and Kiyokawa being naked on public during the day and I believe they should get raped on those scenes but they didn't.

And now that you mentioned about their core difference. I completely agree with you. In fact, I thought it's about Zakuro's strength/weakness.

About Kimika being aware of Tomosane's MPD, there's a scene on Hasaki's chapter which Hasaki met Kimika and Kimika asked her if Tomosane will be a "brother" or a "savior" once Hasaki and Tomosane(Takuji mode) met and that totally convinced me that she's really aware of Tomosane's MPD. She also mentioned that she did a personal background check on Tomosane so I bet she knows almost everything about him. Given Kimika's personality, maybe you can imagine she usually stalks/investigating Takuji after their first meeting such as the scene about Takuji invited Yasuko and Kimika in his secret base for the first time and I kinda feel Kimika isn't really surprised(Well she's the one who murder Senagawa and that means Kimika took Zakuro's cellphone from Takuji while he's on his secret base but yeah I know there are plot-holes about this such as the fingerprints crap).

Well I kinda agree with you that Tomasane's MPD isn't really believable. On my first playthrough, I thought it's really supposed to be supernatural despite the author tries to imply that this whole story isn't supernatural(If we excluded Ayana's existence).

Then again, yeah it's true that this game has tons of plot-holes. Scenes on certain chapters contradicts to the scenes on other chapters. Heck I think I can mention those.Last modified on 2017-10-01 at 09:53
#53 by infernoplex
2017-10-01 at 11:30
Oh, yes, that's what i also thought about, in Takuji's chapter, it's revealed Kimika was a virgin so there was no way she was raped back then. I was expecting that there would be some kind of a plotwist with Kimika in later chapters but sadly, Kimika loses on importance after that chapter with Zakuro. I even memorized this CG because I thought that was Kimika and that maybe there would be an amazing plot twist that she is some kind of an angel or something. But sadly, all the amazing plot twists and ideas that I wanted to see in SubaHibi didn't happen and instead you get Tomosane's MPD and its backstory as the main plot :P ... actually, not even that, now that I look back upon it, the core of it all is SCA-DI's attempt to teach us some philosophy, and of course - "live life happilly" ...

Oh, and you also reminded me now of that scene with Kimika in Hasaki's chapter. She really did say something like that when they met in the secret base, I remember it. And yes, Kimika does have such a personality, unlike other events in SubaHibi, I think Kimika was more believable and her actions coupled with her personality really feel coherent so I am kind of sad that she loses on importance, I really wanted a chapter where she was the protagonist...

Since you mentioned Ayana's supernatural existence, I'd like to point you on an interesting read I found a couple of days ago, you might find it interesting to read this: SubaHibi Narrative Explanation ... I quite frankly got explanation on some things so it's still worth reading through that.

It's a shame though, SubaHibi wasn't the kind of a story I expected it to be (the first part of it deceived me very well, I would have liked it more if it had more fantastical plot developments like the kind of those with LSD trips in Takuji's chapter with Kimika and Zakuro with Yuki on a Milky Way travelling mission ... those were some pretty nice and deep scenes for me ... Sadly, the only good time again after those is at the very end... the epilogue ending "Hill of Sunflowers" was the only other time when I had great fun with it.)
#54 by silentrzk
2017-10-03 at 03:19
Thanks for that link explaining End Sky II. That totally helps me understanding that ending and all the "supernatural" stuff of Subarashiki Hibi.

And yes, I really want Kimika have a chapter of her own. Maybe the reason she didn't because it's like she's the "heroine" of It's My Own Invention chapter and making a chapter for her will be redundant. That's probably why she has a certain ending for her, which is about explaining all of her actions(Still her perspective is a mystery). I was really hoping for another Subarashiki Hibi game because maybe/probably it'll give Kimika a time to shine.

Kimika is my most favorite character because of her varying personalities(Not MPD/DID) such as she can be a klutz, serious to the point she will kill, cutesy, and many more. She never really bored me and yes I'm very upset she lost importance or at least she has her own chapter...
#55 by infernoplex
2017-10-03 at 11:55
#54 - For me, Kimika and Yuki were the most favourite characters. They made the VN for me. Other characters had some good moments at times but I found nobody as much as interesting as Kimika and Yuki. At the very end, I kind of enjoyed SubaHibi but due to stuff I already mentioned earlier, I found it to be a let-down in some regards and hence why I don't think it's a "kamige" at all. But still a very good VN, it was a unique read for me, certainly something to remember.
#56 by chinchalok
2017-10-25 at 19:21
I personally like Ayana the most. She has to be the most mysterious and wtf characters in Visual Novel history.
#57 by silvercover
2017-12-03 at 15:04
Actually, if you guys had seen the other endings, I really wouldn't put it all as just MPD.

With the sunflower hills ending, it seems very likely that souls are a real thing and Takuji and Yuki just go inside Tomosane.

Then there's the end sky II, which basically shows that maybe everything is all just Ayana making things up or we're in some infinite loop(some might be able to escape if things end up differently for characters to get a "Wonderful Everyday" like with Zakuro's ending) with only Ayana being aware.
#58 by infernoplex
2017-12-03 at 16:20
#57 @silvercover - Yes, I agree, that's actually one of the things I believe more than just the simple MPD. I got that impression after finishing that last chapter.
#59 by silvercover
2017-12-04 at 08:03
I feel like one can appreciate and like subahibi more if you have gone through Higurashi and Umineko.Last modified on 2017-12-04 at 08:03
#60 by infernoplex
2017-12-04 at 23:50
I didn't watch/read Umineko but I did watch the anime of Higurashi... and I think I like the story from Higurashi slightly more than SubaHibi.
#61 by silvercover
2017-12-05 at 05:15
just read the VN of umineko, the anime sucks.

you'll notice it has quite a bit of similarities with subahibi.
#62 by infernoplex
2017-12-05 at 10:35
Yes, I intend to read the VN (for both Higurashi and Umineko). It's just that back then in the day (2010) I was still more of an anime guy then I later on switched to VNs. I will check it out :) ...


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